“The apostasy within the Church is the most serious and shocking element” that emerges from the Marian revelations of the 20th century. “Cardinal Ciappi, who had read the Third Secret of Fatima, specified that the Virgin had said that the apostasy would be initiated from the top of the Church.” “We are governed by Masonry, because many politicians and unfortunately various bishops and cardinals are affiliated with it,” and “Italy was warned” of this by the Blessed Mother in her revelation at Civitavecchia in 1995. The suspension of public Masses can be considered “a practical apostasy.” The Daily Compass interviews Father Flavio Ubodi, a Capuchin theologian, for the 103rd anniversary of the beginning of the apparitions at Fatima.
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Apostasy by the hierarchy of the Church, the persecution of the Church not only by the world but also from within the Church herself, and the entrance into the times of the Third Secret of Fatima that will lead to the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In short: we are at the apex of the clash between the Blessed Mother and Satan.
This is the interpretation given by Father Flavio Ubodi to the times we are living in, based on the private Marian revelations given at Fatima and Civitavecchia. The Capuchin theologian is the author of a book called “Civitavecchia. 25 anni con Maria” (Ares, 2020). In the 1990s he was the vice-president of the diocesan theological commission that made a declaration in favour of the supernatural origin of the tears of Our Lady of Civitavecchia. This Marian revelation continued with apparitions and messages to the Gregori family that the Church has slowly recognised (to learn more see here). These messages reveal an explicit link between Fatima and Civitavecchia, the diocese on the edge of Rome where the Blessed Virgin appeared in 1995 to bring to fulfilment to what she foretold to the three shepherd children in 1917.
On the occasion of the 103rd anniversary of the beginning of the apparitions at the Cova d'Iria, The Daily Compass interviewed Father Ubodi.
Father Ubodi, on May 13, 2010, in his homily given at Fatima on the tenth anniversary of the beatification of Jacinta and Francesco, Benedict XVI said: “We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete.” What is this prophetic mission?
First, it must be said that this statement of Benedict XVI shows that what Cardinal Bertone had said [in 2000] about the conclusion of the message of Fatima was false. The prophetic mission of Fatima is to announce what would take place in these end times. Whenever we deal with a prophecy contained in a secret, it is difficult to say precisely what it refers to. However, we may say with a certain confidence that it refers to apostasy within the Church (which is also what the messages at Civitavecchia have announced). This is the most serious and shocking element. Cardinals Silvio Oddi (1910-2001) and Mario Luigi Ciappi (1909-1996) said that the Blessed Mother had announced the great apostasy within the Church. And Cardinal Ciappi, who had read the Third Secret, specified that the Virgin had said that the apostasy would begin from the top. In my opinion, this is the great prophecy.
How is this tied to the third part of the Secret of Fatima, in particular with the vision of martyrs and the persecutions of the Church?
If there is an apostasy within the Church, beginning at the top, it is clear that whoever does not fall in line with the directives coming from the top will automatically be persecuted by the very leadership of the Church. This is something that goes beyond a persecution of the Church by secular power.
At Fatima, in addition to asking for the reception of Holy Communion in reparation on First Saturdays, the Blessed Mother asked for the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart in order to preserve the world from the Second World War. But she was not listened to in time. 25 years ago when she appeared at Civitavecchia she asked in particular for the consecration of Italy. Why?
She asked for the consecration of Italy and also of the whole world. Regarding Italy, she said: “Your nation is in grave danger.” She did not specify whether the danger she was referring to was physical, moral, spiritual, social, or natural disasters. Certainly Italy is undergoing enormous upheavals and a loss of Christian values. If you ask me, Italy was warned because the position of her leaders and those in government is in harmony with the apostasy within the Church and even favours it: creating restrictions on the Church, limiting the administration of the Sacraments and worship, and so forth. I have the impression that Covid-19 was the occasion for a trial run of these restrictions.
Do you believe that the Church is renouncing her freedom?
Yes. One has the impression that there is something like a Masonic agreement, at the top. We are governed by Masonry, because so many politicians and unfortunately various bishops and cardinals are affiliated with or are in obedience to a Masonic authority. So if there is a power that is over others that is in charge and giving directives, this part of the corrupted hierarchy must obey it. And since they have power over the Church, they are able to place restrictions and conditions on the life of the faithful.
Both Fatima and Civitavecchia have the Eucharist at the centre of their messages. The Blessed Mother spoke to the Gregori family about receiving Holy Communion daily in order to grow in holiness. On the other hand, for nearly three months now the faithful have been unable to attend Mass, which will begin again on May 18 (in Italy) with serious restrictions made on the celebration of the Liturgy. How do you interpret this situation of being deprived of the Eucharist?
It is an attack on the very heart of Christianity. The centre of everything is Jesus Christ; it is He whom we find in the Eucharist. If we want to have life, to be fully alive, we must receive the Eucharist. If instead we eliminate the Eucharist from the Church, from the life of the faithful, there will be a frightening spiritual impoverishment. Depriving the faithful of the Eucharist was a great Satanic action. This is implicit in the words of the Blessed Mother: if she recommends receiving Holy Communion daily and you deny this, then obviously what is happening is a great clash between the Blessed Mother and Satan, between the heart of Christianity that is Jesus Christ and the forces of the Enemy that want to separate people from Him. I am convinced that we are now living within the Third Secret of Fatima; it is being fulfilled.
Beginning with Italy, the bishops of entire nations all over the world have suspended the Mass. In 2000 years of Church history, this has never been seen before.
This could be one aspect of the present general apostasy – namely, a practical apostasy. First there is a doctrinal apostasy that consists of denying the fundamental truths of Christianity like Revelation: denying that the Word of God is valid for all times and places. Then there is a denial of the Tradition, dogmas, the truths contained in the Creed. And finally there is a denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ, reducing him to a simple man. And thus the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is denied, the importance of the Sacraments, etc. This is on the doctrinal level. Then there is the practical apostasy: the abandonment of religious practice.
What do you think of giving Jesus with gloves on?
In my opinion this is a profanation that borders on sacrilege. Giving Communion with gloves means not having respect either for Jesus Christ present in the Eucharist or for the faithful who receive it. There is also the problem of the fragments of the Body of Christ that may remain attached to the gloves, and it is not known what happens to them.
Let’s return to Fatima and Civitavecchia. What does the passage relating the conversation between Jessica Gregori and Sister Lucia tell us?
The Blessed Mother gave the Third Secret to Jessica Gregori. In 1996 she met with Sister Lucia; they spoke together in private and, from what I know from Jessica, they compared the messages of the Blessed Mother and they matched perfectly. There is a very close relationship between Fatima and Civitavecchia. Fatima was at the beginning of the twentieth century, Civitavecchia at the end. Fatima was the announcement of what would happen; Civitavecchia was the moment of entering into the things that were announced at Fatima. At Civitavecchia the Blessed Mother said that Satan is trying to overshadow the world and also the Church. She warned: “Prepare yourselves to live through everything I revealed to my little daughters at Fatima.” We have now entered these times.
What do the two messages share in common?
The urgent invitation to conversion and consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The messages of both Fatima and at Civitavecchia speak of consecration, not entrustment: there is a profound difference. Entrustment is more superficial, while consecration is much more powerful because it involves the entire person, family, Church, or nation that makes it. It is like saying, “I am yours; I hand over to you my entire being, so that you may deliver it to the Father.” Another point that Fatima and Civitavecchia have in common is the recitation of the Rosary as a weapon to defeat Satan, a weapon that drives away every danger to the soul and other dangers as well.
Can you give an example of what you mean by danger?
The message of the Blessed Mother at Civitavecchia revealed that Satan would try to destroy the world by trying to provoke a nuclear war.
Civitavecchia makes clear Satan’s hatred against the Church and the family.
The message of Civitavecchia is characterized above all by the family – that is, the destruction of the family, of the primordial cell of society. When these warnings were made by the Blessed Mother [in 1995] there was not yet a society that aggressively promotes cohabitation outside of marriage, homosexual couples, surrogate childbearing, etc. I see this connection: at Fatima the primary concern is the Church; at Medugorje it is the parish; at Civitavecchia the family. This could be one way to distinguish these Marian revelations, which otherwise have many points in common: the constant call to prayer, penance, and thus to conversion.
What link is there between the vision of Hell at Fatima and the tears of Civitavecchia?
The tears of Civitavecchia reveal the sorrow of the Blessed Mother, who weeps for the Blood of her Son that was poured out for many people in vain. The vision of Hell at Fatima reminds us that despite the Cross and the Blood of Jesus that is poured out, many are damned. The same thing is said at Civitavecchia but in another way. The blood that the Blessed Mother weeps is the Blood of Christ, because many do not benefit from this Blood. They reject the Mercy of God and so they damn themselves.
The second statue of the Blessed Mother at Civitavecchia that exudes perfumed oil came from Medugorje. What significance does it have?
This is also a significant phenomenon. This statue – which was given by Cardinal Andrzej Maria Deskur (1924-2011) and blessed in the name of John Paul II – gives off perfumed oil when it is least expected: in front of groups or individual people and often during liturgical celebrations. The oil is a sign of the protection of Mary and the graces of the Holy Spirit.
If we are now approaching the high point of the battle, does this mean that the promised Triumph of the Blessed Mother is near?
Certainly, but we do not know how long this battle will last. This is also a common aspect of the messages of Fatima and Civitavecchia: the Blessed Mother says that there will be trials and tribulations but in the end the Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph. This Triumph stands out in the revelations of Fatima and Civitavecchia and infuses strength into the heart of every believing Christian.